There are rugby players, there are rugby stars and then there is Neil Antony Back MBE. The former Leicester Tigers and England number seven has now moved in to management. Who would bet against the diminutive star proving once again that size doesn’t matter?

Dean Eldredge: Neil, you’re the Head Coach at Leeds Carnegie. How did the move come about and what are your expectations?
Neil Back: I’ve coached for five years now, two as a player-coach and three full-time at Leicester Tigers. My role was as defence and skills coach there, but I was always looking to challenge myself further. Leeds presented me with the opportunity and from meeting with Gary Hetherington (CEO), it was an easy sell for me and Andy Key (Director of Rugby) to get involved.

Our ambition is to secure an immediate return to the Premiership and then we aim to establish ourselves there. If the club was as organised on the pitch last year as it was off the pitch, there is no way Leeds would have been relegated. My challenge is to rectify that.

DE: After so long at the Tigers talk to us about the different working environments of the two clubs?
NB: It was very strange at first, simply just looking at myself in a different kit was quite a shock. We have tried to bring in the winning mentality that we had at Leicester and highlight what it takes to be an elite athlete. There are good players here, but it’s about building a winning club and a winning ethos. One key aspect of this is bringing in our own staff structure, including a performance manager, which will help to give us the edge.

DE: When did your passion for the game begin and did you always believe that you were going to make it to the top?
NB: I started playing mini-rugby at the age of five and played nearly every sport available when I was young. I do remember being asked at senior school about my ambitions for the future though, and I replied that I wanted to play rugby for England and to drive a Porsche! Everyone laughed, but you have to have belief in yourself.

DE: Who are the people that helped to shape you and your career?
NB: I was privileged to study at schools that had a great emphasis on sport and they were state schools, not fee paying. My first coach, a chap called Jack Carnell, taught me tackle techniques and I still adopt some of his principles today. Jim Robinson, who took me from Coventry to Nottingham, had a big influence on me and placed me as understudy to Gary Rees, the England number seven at the time.

Dean Richards and John Wells were crucial too, as was Tony Russ, who was the England Under-21 coach, before his involvement at Leicester. When the game turned professional, Bob Dwyer was at Leicester and he made his mark on me and obviously Sir Clive Woodward and Phil Larder were key in my progression on the international stage.

DE: In ’96, there was a watershed moment in your career when you were banned for six months after pushing over referee Steve Lander in the cup final. How did you get over the disappointment and use it to your advantage?
NB: Any knockback in your career has to be learned from. I wouldn’t advise anyone to pursue the route that I did, but after a three week break I decided to work hard at my fitness and devise a programme with the help of Dave Reddin. Alongside that, I got engaged and married my wife, Alison, two years later. I also bought a house, which allowed me to gain perspective and be prepared for professional rugby.

DE: Seven years later you completed the dream of winning the World Cup, talk to us about the experience…
NB: The preparation was key. We had lost to Wales at Wembley, to Scotland at Murrayfield in the rain and to Ireland after the foot and mouth outbreak. All of these defeats cost us a Grand Slam title, but we learnt to take points when they were on offer (Wales), how to play in difficult conditions (Scotland) and how to switch on and off after a gap in fixtures (Ireland).

When the tournament came around I felt that we were going to win every game. The competitive environment that Sir Clive created was the difference in my eyes. One example was the tradition that as Johnno led out the team he would say a few words to check that we were switched on. On the day of the final he gave us all a glare, then a nod, turned and strode out on to the pitch. He told me a couple of weeks later that he could see it in our eyes that we were ready. It was the great sign of a leader who knew when to speak and when to stay quiet and he always got it right.

DE: Following that incredible achievement, what were the key mistakes made that led to a period of disappointment for England?
NB: There was a big change in our roles as we found ourselves at Buckingham Palace, Downing Street and at various celebratory or testimonial dinners. This upset sleeping and eating patterns and Sir Clive put an end to it all on January 1st. For the three months or so after the win we definitely lost some of our advantages and our edge. Quite rightly we had to celebrate, but it did have a detrimental effect.

We also lost players to retirement and in the Scotland and Italy fixtures, Sir Clive brought in some younger players to freshen things up. This was okay, with all due respect to those sides, but when we faced Ireland we came unstuck and the lessons learnt over the previous years were suddenly lost. Since then there has been a total lack of consistency in selection.

DE: What are your expectations for the Martin Johnson era?
NB: Without question, Johnno has the right characteristics to lead England. He needs to get people to enjoy playing for England and he needs to raise the intensity too. Another great challenge will be to maximise the potential of talented individuals, into a team environment. I’m sure that given time he will be a great success.

DE: You’ve worked under some iconic managers in your time such as Dean Richards, Sir Clive Woodward and Ian McGeechan, amongst others. Talk us through the differences in their styles…
NB: I was fortunate to be on the Lions tour of 2005 and as it was close to the end of my career I was spending more time listening to the world class coaches that were there.

To compare the three mentioned, Sir Clive came from a business background and was innovative, organised and brought in specialist people for each area. Ian McGeechan’s main qualities were his ability to bring the best out of people, his individual awareness and his sheer presence. Deano has a sound understanding of the game, demands hard work and has progressed as a coach immensely over the years.

DE: As a player, you were often wrongly written off as being too small. What advice would you give to a young player facing the same criticisms today?
NB: It was very much a media thing that and my autobiography was called ‘Size doesn’t matter’, with the catchline ‘If you’re good enough, you’re big enough’, which has always been my philosophy. If anything, the column inches I received in the media were a hindrance to me as they made an issue of it. It took me a long time to gain my full England cap, but that was because I wasn’t good enough, not because I was too small.

In terms of advice, I think that you just have to strive to be as good as you can be, forget about stereotypes and simply focus on working harder at your game. When we fitness tested at England, I was blowing people away and making them look silly. If you can do that then you will get picked regardless.

DE: Your fitness was a key aspect of your game. Were there any techniques that gave you the edge, or was it purely hard graft that yielded results?
NB: I had a certain amount of ability but I was keen to develop myself and invested energy in talking to others about how to do this. I even trained on Christmas Day as I knew that other players weren’t.

Sir Steve Redgrave spoke to me once about how he had the mental edge over someone, having pushed himself to near death in training. In a race he would convince himself that his opponent would be in more pain, which drove him to victory.

DE: Your role in the 2002 Heineken Cup Final, in tapping the ball away from Munster’s Peter Stringer, was key…
NB: No one coached me to do it, it was just an instinct. However, there was still time left in the game and I don’t believe my actions decided the match at all. We crossed the line four times, with two disallowed tries, where as they hadn’t crossed the line at all and weren’t going to.

I’ll leave it to Brian Moore, who described it as ‘brilliant’, which if I’m honest, given the context, it was! The only downside is that I have to now get two medals out to polish them instead of one! In all seriousness, I’m sure that event will have helped Stringer’s game, as he won’t allow it to happen again.

DE: Back to management. The media have described your decision to join Leeds as a gamble. Was there any temptation for you to remain at Leicester?
NB: It would have been easy to stay at Leicester and I was the front runner to get the Head Coach job at the time. If I’d have done so and got off to a bad start, I’d have been under immediate pressure due to expectations. Leeds wanted me and are a vibrant club going in the right direction.

DE: What went wrong for Marcelo Loffreda at Leicester?
NB: I got on extremely well with Marcelo and the coaches supported his playing philosophy and playing style 100%. The fact that he’d never coached in the Premiership, with its competitive nature was a key factor and probably surprised him quite a bit. Language and cultural differences may have played a part too, but the board’s decision was right.

The new boss, Heyneke Meyer, will be a success I’m sure, but he’ll receive more time in the role if he isn’t a success than I would have.

DE: Looking back to the mid-90’s and the camaraderie between the major sports sides in Leicestershire, you must be disappointed to see the current crop struggling…
NB: I think that this county missed a trick in not developing a centre of excellence for sport that would have resulted in a cross-fertilisation of ideas between the major clubs. Back in those days we all socialised together and there was great success between the rugby, football and cricket teams. Perhaps rugby moving to a professional sport around that time took us away from the others a little?

DE: In what way?
NB: Well, I remember back in ’96 when Jason Leonard was asked, as part of an England nutritional analysis, how many pints of beer he drank and he answered ‘twenty eight’. When asked if that was four pints a night he replied ‘no, it’s twenty pints on a Saturday, followed by eight on a Sunday to wash down my roast dinner!’ That was true and was symbolic of the change needed in the sport, but he had to do it to play in four World Cups and three Lions Tours.

DE: Looking even further back, to your youth, can you tell us about your upbringing and how it helped to shape you?
NB: I loved playing sport at school and had fantastic teachers that were always enthusiastic. I lived in a cul-de-sac and was always out playing rugby or football. My parents were very supportive too and I don’t know any professional athlete who hasn’t had that backing from those close to them.

DE: Do you encourage your own children to play sport?
NB: I’ve given them the opportunities to be involved, but it’s their choice. Finley is five and plays football and rugby and Olivia who is eight does gymnastics. They both also play cricket and swim regularly at Next Generation Club and just play sport for enjoyment which is great.

DE: Finally, describe yourself in no more than ten words…
NB: Ambitious, self-driven, motivated, determined and a winner.

Neil would like to thank Adidas for their sponsorship over the years and Legends International Events Ltd, for whom Neil is a director.